A fairly new NCO raised the question to a senior member asking what the point of being an NCO was if she wasn't put in charge of a flight or at least given some sort of position in the squadron.
My question to the C/NCO's is this: What do you feel is the reason for being an NCO even if you aren't given a position?

An NCO's job is displaying the highest standard of professionalism, discipline and uniform wear for the cadets in the unit, no matter what position he/she is in.

If he/she isn't doing this, he/she shouldn't be in a position of any importance (or near any lower cadets).

To piggy back on what he said up there, he/she should be working on becoming a better leader. It's said over and over in the leadership manuals that leaders are good followers as well. Our squadron doesn't have enough positions for all our NCOs, but that doesn't mean any of them are bad leaders.

Leadership positions within the squadron are earned and should be considered as achievements just like any other awards in the program.

A good way to see how good an NCO is is to rotate them through different positions at the Squadron.

One NCO might be exceptional at Drill, but might also have a very sloppy uniform. Another might have outstanding computer skills, but very poor Time-Management skills.

In your case Lt. Col, you might try putting that NCO in charge of a flight for a few meetings, then, depending on their performance, you can choose to keep them in that position, or remove them accordingly.

I had the same question in my mind when I got my Wright Brothers Award, but I asked for help from the Staff, and I got a satisfying answer.
(Some of this may have already been mentioned before)

Even if a C/NCO has no official "job" in the squadron, it is up to him/her to set the example for the junior cadets.
Leadership positions do not just come to anybody. You need to prove yourself in order to get the position of your choice.
A bonus for being part of the flight is that you get to work with the junior cadets, and you are able to interact with them more. When the time comes when you get your leadership position, the junior cadets will feel comfortable talking to you, which is important in mentoring the cadets, but mentoring is another topic in itself.

Sorry for being so random about the points I have......

As a cadet NCO, she should be pro-actively looking for ways to be useful. Any good NCO can be given a task and accomplish it, a truly exceptional NCO will seek out deficiencies and opportunities without guidance from higher. Sometimes, it's a bunch of little things that add up.

For example:

Does your squadron have a model rocketry program? She could research the requirements, come up with a training schedule, figure out a budget, and then plunk down a completed proposal on the AE Officer's hands.

Do you have a comprehensive training plan for new cadets? Could she come up with a program designed to give a new cadet the information and skills they need to get their Curry?

Are there any miscellaneous administrative tasks that need to be done (filing, uniforms, cadet career progression tracking)?

Are there any recruiting activities that could be scheduled?

These might not sound like glamorous assignments, but they need to be done. As an Army NCO, I look for people who, without being in leadership positions, find opportunities to lead anyway. And those people usually get promoted and receive positions of responsibility rather quickly (hint, hint).

All that said, you really do owe an NCO some sort of official job. It may be a staff function (supporting some staff officer outside of squadron meetings), or something small like element leader (or even assistant element leader, if you've got big elements).

But you really ought to give them something.

Agreed.

The rule of thumb that I use...

"Make the grade at least as big of a deal as the L2K books do if at all possible."

Since we ask the cadets to know and study the material, and the material is training a C/Amn to be an assistant element leader, then it would be a detriment not only to our squadron, but to the cadet as well not to utilize the cadet in this position.

It is understood that many squadrons simply do not have the manpower to house multiple flight sergeants. It is also understood that it could be difficult to move a C/Flight Sergeant to a first sergeant after only four months. However, every attempt should be made to give the cadet a position near what the L2K says they are qualified to handle. That way, you'll find that the books do a lot of the motivating for the cadets without much help from your side. The cadets will WANT to promote if they know you treat their rank as meanful of competancy.

Obviously, the downside is the more obvious scrutiny a commander will have to give each cadet who is trying to promote, but hopefully, the commanders are doing this anyway.

John,

I disagree with you somewhat.

I think all NCO's should have some sort of job...but what is wrong with "Element Leader" and "Assistant Element Leader"?

You can assign 3-5 cadets to each of your SSgt's and make them responsible for them.

Giving NCO's outside jobs assisting cadet officers who should be assisting senior member officers is almost a waste of time and detracts from the way the program is built.

This is one of the reasons why I think we have rank stagnation. We are throwing too much too soon at our cadets and they shift their focus from progressing in the program to "doing the job".

While it is good experince....I am not debating that...if we forced our cadet NCOs to move up we can improve our numbers.

And NO....I am not talking about quantity over quality...just that we have a lot of high quality NCO's who should be wearing Capt Pips instead of SMSgt/CMSgt stripes.

Also, if your squadron has a color guard, honor guard, or drill team, and the cadet in question is pretty good at drill, consider asking them to join the team. It might give them a better sense of responsibilty and motivate them more. It did in my squadron.

If they don't... heck, make him start a new team.

YES! A little hard work and dedication won't hurt anyone and it certainly won't hurt the squadron. I started a color guard at my squadron and wasn't completely successful. Even so, failing is better than not even trying and it was a good experience.

Above, Dan brings up a great point. Cadet NCO's are leaders. Cadet NCO's can lead with or without a staff assignment.

Furthermore, whether they are good examples or not, the Cadet Airmen will look to the NCOs on everything from bearing, behavior and decorum at meetings, to what standards to meet and what areas receive focus.

In the real service, new soldiers look to NCOs as examples. This may be for many reasons. Mine was because thats what I hoped and aspired to be. Other soldiers had no aspiration to be officers and would choose to stay on the NCO career path, so these NCOs are representing what they were to become.

In CAP all cadets will eventually become officers so the same correlation is invalid. A theory though, is the fact that these cadet NCOs are so close to where the the cadets are now. There might be a huge age/ experience cap between new cadets and cadet officers. This gap usually doesn't usually exist between a/AB and a cadet NCO.

This theory stresses how important it is for cadet NCO to not only learn what is right and wrong quickly but also the fact that they need to square themselves away early in their CAP career.

In the army an E4 might have two deployments in and have been in service for 3 years. This being more experience than a new LT would have. In CAP this does not happen. So it is the responsibility of cadet NCOs to become good cadet officers, train up good NCOs, let the cadet NCOs have primary contact with the new cadets, and then let the cycle continue.

You are right, sir. The fact that airmen, grunts, or what have you, will and do, usually, look up to NCOs means that the NCO must must must be a good example and follow the Honor Code( It's not that hard people!) The chain of command is only as good as it's weakest link, and that link can be an NCO, so, as I said, an NCO must be a good example and follow through on all of his duties to better the chain of command and his squadron.

The first part of Chapter 4 of our leadership text describes the roles of an NCO. However, I think it sums up the idea very well when it says "The NCO gets the job done."

Personally, when I want to see what a new C/NCO is capable of, I set up cadet training weekends a few times a year and allow those C/NCOs to serve in different positions such as flight sgt or admin NCO.

Tends to work better than making up positions at your meetings like "Assistant Deputy Vice junior candy bar distribution officer-at-large".

Otherwise, as mentioned before, that cadet should be proactive and taking charge when no one else is around, inspecting the troops before the "real" inspection and taking care of every single minor issue before any brass finds out. Something I wish I would see more of in CAP is leadership on the lowest levels.

For one I do think there could be a job at any squadron for a C/NCO. Heck make him/her the safety NCO.

Regardless of position, the NCO needs to set example PERIOD. My C/CC admits that I am the best dressed and shined cadet at the squadron (including him). The point of that is I have dedicated myself to looking the best and acting the best. I urge cadets to be better than me. They all have my number and they can call any time to get advice.

Also the NCO's job is to be a follower. Just because you get your Wright Bros doesn't mean you are a leader from now on. I have my WB and I just have to go to my basic encampment. No matter were you are in life you must continue to learn and follow. I often tell cadets "You will always be a follower, even the president is responsible to all of us Americans, so you might as well learn to follow now."


Thanks for the time,
C/SSgt Lynch

If it were my world to rule, I'd have "Assistant Element Leader" removed and start using in-flight C/JNCO's in a "supervisor" capacity for X number cadets within an element. By "supervisor" as applied to CAP vs the USAF supervisor, there would be no reporting official status, yet the C/JNCO in question would be tasked to mentor and pay close attention to the development of a small number of C/Airmen types.

OK, I realize this thread has been inactive for a while but I've been away for awhile this whole topic seems inactive anyway.
An Air Force squadron may have as many as three hundred NCO's or more. Very few of them have staff positions. We don't need to find a staff position for everyone. Give them tasks to be responsible for. Cadet Safety NCO as mentioned above. Give them classes to teach. Does your squadron have community service projects? Get them E/S qualilfications. The idea behind being an NCO is leadership AND responsiblity.
Paul

Well to me the point of being an NCO is to be able to be held to a higher standard. you don't always have to be controlling the flight to influence it if you are able to put on a good attitude and try and be the best you can be its is not only contagious but may spark a friendly competition with your fellow cadets always making their uniform better to see who gets the higher score or things like that, but make sure its not to be carried to far now

I can't beleive I missed this one!

WRONG!

Every NCO will have a position....it may not be a "staff" position but it will be a postiion. Be it shift leader, team leader, trainer, lead technician.

Don't make the mistake of comparing CAP with the real USAF.

If you have a real job that really needs to be done...fill it. If not just press on.